Thanks again for your help! Very very helpful and make my mind much clear.
I don't have to spey but I believe it is fun to explore this new field. I will try to go to next group casting and learn more from you two and other group members.
Best,
Yang
On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Daniel Davala <daniel.davala@gmail.com> wrote:
I generally agree about starting two-handed casting with the longer rod if possible - provided the river/fishing situations justify it. Like John, I give a lot of Spey Casting lessons and one of the things I see the most when a new two-handed caster starts with a switch rod is a tendency to use almost all top hand and very little bottom. Essentially, they are casting the rod with one hand and just holding the bottom grip because it's there. This results in a significant INCREASE in the effort required to make a cast, which is the exact opposite of the intended purpose of a two-handed rod. If this has been going on for a while it can be a difficult habit to break (though it can be broken).Additionally, with the shorter rods (+/-11') everything else is proportionately shorter than with a longer rod (13'+). The lift, the sweep, the time it takes for the D-Loop to form, and the power application are all much quicker with a shorter rod. For some this is not a problem, but for others it can be hard to dial in the timing of these events since they are all taking place over a shorter duration of time. In contrast, the longer the rod is, the proportionately longer each of these events are, giving the caster more time as each takes place. Also, with a longer rod, the rod tip will travel significantly farther with effectively the same input from the caster. The longer the tip travels, the more line can be moved more easily, and there is more distance in which to speed up the line before stopping the rod and making the cast. It is easier as well to lift/extract longer, heavier sinking tips and heavier flies from the water with fewer motions when using a longer rod. Simply put, you can get more output with less input, which is a basic principal of leverage. Lazy casters like me like getting more for less!Dan DavalaP.S. The type and size of the water intended to be fished should still always be the first consideration when choosing the right rod/line for the job. If one is looking for their first two-handed rod and only intends to fish small to mid-size streams and rivers, then a shorter spey or switch rod is likely the better choice, and a casting lesson or two can break many bad habits before they ever form. Since much of our two-handed rod discussions center on the Tidal Potomac River and the surf/coast, it is easier to justify the longer rods and they are truly assets when it comes to BIG water. Again - the above are only opinions and not the rule.On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 6:31 AM, John Bilotta <jbilotta@obassociates.net> wrote:Yang,I think they are a good mid-size rod that casters can use in a number of different fishing situations. And there are also a number of very good affordable rods in this category on the market.JohnOn Sep 14, 2012, at 9:16 PM, Yang Chang wrote:Hi John:Why do you recommend new DH caster starts between 13' and 13'6" not shorter spey rod?Thanks!YangOn Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:06 PM, John Bilotta <jbilotta@obassociates.net> wrote:Currently planning Oct 20.
On Sep 14, 2012, at 4:00 PM, Yang Chang wrote:
> Hi Dan, John, and all:
>
> Thanks for your suggestions! And thank John for your offer!
>
> When is the next club casting?
>
> Best,
>
> Yang
>
> On 9/14/12, John Bilotta <obassociates@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Just to pitch in, I second Dan's points on rods, especially that "most
>> will work just fine."
>>
>> I have the TCX 12'6", it is a great, fast action rod affectionately called
>> by some the "deathstar." I use mine on the river and up in NY. I usually
>> fish it with a 550 grain skagit line and a 10-12 sink tip.
>>
>> That said, I am not sure I would recommend this rod to a brand new TH
>> caster. I generally recommend 7wts between 13' and 13'6", with a more
>> moderate-fast action, for most users.
>>
>> You can try my TCX some weekend at club casting, and several other 7wts and
>> see what you like.
>>
>> Chrs
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 14, 2012, at 10:11 AM, Dan Davala - Founder/President wrote:
>>
>>> Yang, Mike, and all,
>>>
>>> Great questions! While all of the options may seem dizzying, the great
>>> thing is, most will work just fine. I have my opinions, and others have
>>> theirs. Simply put, there are many ways to play this game. John Bilotta
>>> and I have fished for Stripers, Shad, and other species out here with
>>> everything from 11' - 15' rods, and in nearly every line weight
>>> configuration.
>>>
>>> My short answer is, any two-handed rod from 11'-14' that will handle a
>>> minimum Grain weight of 400 Grains+ will work great. Beyond that, it is a
>>> matter of preference. In my opinion, I like a longer rod because I can
>>> span the widest range of conditions if I have a single hand 9' rod and a
>>> Double in the 13'-14' range. I find when I am fishing BIG water (for
>>> anything), I like my BIG rod, and when the water is small or the fish are
>>> in close, it's hard to beat a single hand rod, especially if you get
>>> proficient making Spey Casts with it. A switch rod is light and fun, and
>>> it nicely fills the niches between these two scenarios, but it is
>>> certainly the master of neither.
>>>
>>> About the surf, there are several schools of thought, and all are valid.
>>> Personally, I much prefer my long rods in the surf and fish my 14' 9weight
>>> the most. As you know, the surf zone is BIG water, and a long rod has
>>> many advantages when lifting line over waves, repositioning line for
>>> another cast, and casting repeatedly with the least amount of effort.
>>> Again, these are only my opinions, but they are based on actual fishing
>>> experiences with rods from 9'-15'.
>>>
>>> About the Erie/Ontario tribs, I have far less experience than others here,
>>> so I hope Richie, Rob, John, and others will chime in. The tribs I have
>>> fished for Steelhead I could cover extremely well with a single hand rod
>>> and Spey Casts. There are many specialized lines made for this type of
>>> fishing these days as well, which can maximize the efficiency of single
>>> hand rods in the smaller streams.
>>>
>>> For lines, I fish a Skagit line with different tips in both the Potomac
>>> and in the surf. Many internet forums suggested that Skagit lines and
>>> sustained anchor casts would not work well in the Surf, but I have found
>>> the opposite to be true. There is merit and value to learning to cast and
>>> fish with other types of lines, and I do, but day in and day out I find
>>> the Skagit set up to be the best for what I do. Especially since
>>> stripping line is a useful part of my retrieve for imparting action to the
>>> fly when fishing Shad, Stripers, Bluefish, etc. Of course, I can swing
>>> with it two when that is the desired presentation.
>>>
>>> About the reels you both mention, the Hydros 5 will have plenty of
>>> capacity for any Switch or Spey setup from 11'-14' and for line ratings of
>>> #6-#9. I think it is a bit big actually for the 11'-12'6" rods, but that
>>> is my opinion. I fish a #5 Mirage (same capacity) on my 14' 9weight and
>>> find the balance to be perfect, but I had to back it with Gel Spun (GSP)
>>> to get the capacity I want. The Access #4 reel mentioned will work on a
>>> switch rod, but will be a bit light to balance anything much over 11' in
>>> length, regardless of line rating.
>>>
>>> By far, the best thing you guys can do is get down on the river with John
>>> Bilotta and others when we gather for casting sessions. Most of the rods
>>> described above are available for a test drive, and with nearly every line
>>> system imaginable. I hope this helps a bit, and I look forward to other's
>>> opinions.
>>>
>>> Dan Davala
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 14, 2012 8:53:15 AM UTC-4, Mike D. wrote:
>>> Yang - It's as if you read my mind. I was thinking of asking the same
>>> question, and we've got nearly identical set-ups (7-wt. for steelhead,
>>> 9-wt. for stripers). My main concern is finding something that could work
>>> in the surf/on the Potomac/up on the Erie tribs. Is this possible? I
>>> guess we'll find out. I'm also curious about the appropriate line which
>>> might be able to function for all purposes. The whole
>>> spey/switch/shooting head line system thing confuses the hell out of me.
>>> And, like you, I was curious about capacity on my Orvis Access IV
>>> (7-9-wt.).
>>>
>>> People have mentioned Rise Fishing Co. rods in the past, and they're
>>> supposed to be coming out with some spey rods in the not-too-distant
>>> future. Their prices are fantastic, so I'm super-interested in what
>>> they're going to offer. Those Sages look sweet, but I love saving $$$
>>> (and trying out rods from various manufacturers). Excited to hear some
>>> input!
>>>
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