Sorry to just be getting to you. I was in Florida for a funeral the past couple days, and wasn't checking my email. I hope it didn't seem like I was ignoring your response. I honestly have no idea who you are in real life, so no assumptions or antipathies were intended.
I appreciate the spirit of your original post and your response. You didn't break any rules -- obviously -- and I am not angry or upset, nor is it my place to be. I definitely appreciate what you're trying to do vis your spot, and I don't have any problem with you protecting a secret spot. My only concern is with the baggage that talking about 'secret spots' brings to a forum like this. I will explain at tedious length:
I think one of the big turn-offs for people coming to flyfishing is the stratification, the sense of superiority, that seems to come with every fly rod. I mean, we do have a distinct ethos in our sport that is pretty cool. Me and my 8wt are an awesome sight to behold, indeed. But sometimes this comes off as if we all think we're better than spin- or bait-fishers -- not just technically, but even at an almost moral level. You see this in A River Runs Through It, where Norman MacLean explains that he grew up thinking the apostles were fly fishers, and Peter as Jesus's favorite must have been a dry-fly fisher. I started fishing a year or so before A River Runs Through It, and remember older flyrodders asking me -- with obvious contempt -- if I got into the sport because of that movie. As if I were not worthy because I hadn't been initiated from birth into the Most Sacred Order of Esteemed Fly Anglers, or some such.
I hate to admit that I have absorbed the negative aspects of the ethos to the point that I feel guilty breaking out my spin tackle and throwing a soft plastic jerk bait. Forgive me, Saint Izaak, for I have spinned. That's a stupid way to feel about something I enjoy (I enjoy flyfishing more, usually) but it comes from twenty years of hanging out with flyrodders and reading magazines about the sport, etc.
So while I am sympathetic to the idea of protecting a secret spot from the wandering hordes on the Internet, the potential problem that presents is that a visiting spin or bait (or net or bow) fisher sees that attitude and thinks, 'these fly rodders are all douchebags'. I assume that's not true of you (probably a little true of me, I admit), but it's just part of fly fishing's much larger image problem. And if the spinfishers see us as jerks, they're not going to listen to us when we try to talk to them about conservation, much less want to learn how to flyfish or give us elbow room at Gravelly. As I understand it, this is part of the reason that we've been pretty chill about posts denouncing the poaching and overharvesting by various non-flyrodders -- we can't expect to engage them offline if we're up on the Internet painting them as history's greatest monsters. My sense is TPFR was established and organized to be as welcoming as possible to people who are not even yet flyrodders, even if they don't want to ever be, in an effort to help break down the image of the holier-than-thou flyfisher looking down his long rod at everyone else.
Another facet of the 'secret spots' problem is that the superiority thing happens within flyfishing, as well -- and I am sensitive enough that I felt compelled to point out a whiff of it. You would be entirely within your rights to say I was overreacting, but maybe I can explain where I am coming from.
I have always been a budget-conscious angler, and I can't tell you how many fly shops I have been in where I got ignored to death as a result. When I started flyfishing, there was a shop in Orlando (my home town). I went in and asked for a low-priced rod combo, and the guy tried showing me $500 stuff -- this was in 1994 dollars, mind you. And when I couldn't buy that stuff, the dude ignored me for years. Every now and then the guy would have a high dollar customer come in, and then the maps came out and I could overhear them talking about spots to fish. But never when it was just me in the shop. I bought their f---ing logo hats -- two of them -- and wore them all over the world, but still I was persona non exista until I finally saved up my meager allowance enough to buy $150 flats boots (which were too big, because the guy didn't bother to explain the neoprene gets stretchier when wet, and then he wouldn't trade me the right size). If it's clear that I have a chip on my shoulder -- and I do, I know -- it's mostly because of that guy. Then Bass Pro opened up ten miles away, and the fly shop went out of business; I can't say I miss that dude.
The first time I moved to DC, fresh from college, stone broke and unemployed -- I went to Angler's Lie when it was still across the street from the big shop, and asked for flies and spots. The guy said, "the whole potomac river", which may have seemed like a helpful thing to say, but was way too daunting for me in my pre-canoe days. Again, I had a strong sense that my lack of budget was keeping me from any specific locations. I tried to fish the whole Potomac -- as in, just picked a couple places at random -- and had real mediocre results. I wrongly concluded that the Potomac suxxed as a fishery, so I put my rod down for a few years, and took up whitewater boating in a big way. I was still fishing when I went back to Florida, but using spin tackle.
Not until I happened into Dan's shop a few years ago, did I start to realize that 'the whole Potomac' was not a good strategy. Dan was great about pointing me to specific spots and telling me how to fish them, even if I didn't spend a cent in his store. Now that I work with him, I am regularly amazed at how down-to-earth and generous and infectious he is about this sport with all his customers -- from the millionaires stocking up on permit flies to the stinky AT thru-hiker looking for fishhooks to the bait-fishers who are probably out poaching stripers on their brand new Gamakatsu stinger hooks. And as far I can tell, Dan started this club in exactly the same spirit of 'everybody gets fish'.
So when I say 'not cool', it's not just the interests of the other-fishers, but also of people within the club who are sensitive to the superiority complex, people who want to know where to fish but don't feel comfortable asking. You may well be the most egalitarian-minded angler in the club -- and I do think you were trying to be genuinely helpful. But you should at least be aware that talk of 'secret spots' does have that hint of superiority to it, at least to some or one of us. As a fellow member, I think we should do what we can, proactively, to avoid any whiffiness of superiority. You might disagree; for that matter, Dan and the other officers might disagree. I could be the only one, but that's how I see the situation.
For me that means not just telling people about our spots, but even taking folks out and fishing them. I had no idea 4-Mile Run was fishable, until Todd Kim met up with a few of us out there to fish for carp on a freezing winter morning. We didn't catch anything, but I got a sense for the place have gone back many times after, catching many fish in that sewer. Rob Snowhite took me fishing (as a friend) in the Reston lakes -- his secret spot -- when I barely knew him. And incidental to the 'preserve' concern, as far as I know, Snowhite has pulled more trash out of 4-Mile than Arlington County ever will. We're not all that good, but you see my point: if folks here know about a place, we can help you take care of it.
When I take folks out in my canoe -- usually people I've never met before -- I'm not taking them to crap spots. We're going where I think there will be fish, whether or not it was ever a secret spot. The first time I caught shad on a fly, if memory serves, was fishing with Trent Jones in the front of my canoe. I had the canoe, Trent had the knowledge, and we connected because of TPFR. I've taken spin-fishing friends out in my canoe, too -- and watched them outfish me 2-to-1. Such is life.
So I'm not saying you have to tell everybody your thing. I do think that if you have a secret spot, keep the fact that you have a secret a secret. I don't feel it's that helpful to post saying, "I have a secret spot", because those words have a lot of baggage in this sport. Either you have a spot that you can share, or you don't. You are totally free to disagree and decide I've lost my mind -- but please don't think I'm angry or upset or in any way think you're not as much a contributor to this group as anybody. We may have a difference of opinion, but only that much and no more.
best,
Miles
On Thursday, June 21, 2012 8:07:25 PM UTC-4, Dubble Haul wrote:
I understand it may seem uncool, probably because I appear to be a new member. I am one of the original members posting under a different screen name. I've shared ALL my sites, just not this one. Yes. Other members have fished there and I am committed to sharing with MEMBERS , just not the entire world, and this IS a google forum - not this one. Ironically, I've shared this site with you and every member I can at the events BECAUSE TPFR members are responsible and respectful and in my own way I am trying to contribute. I respect you John, you taught be to cast with a two-handed rod and helped me immensely with tackle selection. You are one of most generous anglers I've ever met. There is a long tradition of protecting your fishing spots, so I don't think it's that big of deal.--
The spirit of this board can be preserved without requiring full disclosure of every anglers favorite sites to the world. I have gifted fishing gear to young anglers on this site, provided several tips and so on, promoted the forum and club and have contributed financially to the organization. I'm entitled to a few relative "secrets".
Respectfully,
Dubble Haul
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