Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders

Wednesday, 28 February 2018

Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Patuxent River Trout Fishing

Re poaching, from Maryland DNR, http://www.eregulations.com/maryland/fishing/addresses-phone-numbers/ :

Catch a Poacher 24-Hour hotline

Poaching deprives the public of the opportunity to use and enjoy Maryland's natural resources. Preserving our natural resources for present and future enjoyment is everyone's responsibility.

Citizens who use the poaching hotline to supply Maryland Natural Resources Police with information leading to the arrest and conviction of a poacher will be eligible to receive cash rewards.

Please provide names, addresses,
vehicle and boat descriptions and as much additional information as you can.

Your anonymity is guaranteed.

800-635-6124

On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 5:55:20 PM UTC-5, ALarge wrote:

so many poachers in this stretch....A better tactic is to keep your mouth shut and call a game warden - maybe snap a sneaky pic of the perp if you're so inclined.

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Northern Virginia Trout Unlimited - Shad Run Speaker - Maarch 1, 2018

NORTHERN VIRGINIA TROUT UNLIMITED (NVATU) MARCH 1, 2018 SPEAKER - 7:00 PM - Gather at Outback at 5pm for beverage and/or a meal at 6:00pm. See you theere!

Update on Cleanup Work, Shad Run at Fletcher's

As Spring and the annual shad run approach, engineering work continues on the first phase of the restoration effort at Fletcher's Cove, the go-to location for generations of Potomac fishers. Mark Binsted is one of the founding members of Friends of Fletcher's Cove, a volunteer group working to preserve public river access at the Cove. Mark will present a short history of the area, explain the causes behind the extreme sedimentation and bring us up to date on the latest developments. He will also report on the American shad resurgence and preview this year's shad run.

Mark, who is vice president of the National Capital Chapter TU, describes himself as an architect and a river rat, not necessarily in that order. He has fished the Potomac out of Fletcher's Cove since he was a teenager in the late 1960's. In those early days he worked for the Fletcher family and came to understand the appeal of the river and its many unusual characters. Mark would later share his love of the river with three sons and still lives in the Palisades neighborhood within sight of the Cove. Alex, his oldest, returned to the river after college and became the manager of Fletcher's Boathouse last year.

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Tuesday, 27 February 2018

Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Patuxent River Trout Fishing

IMO the best section is downstream of Hipsley Mill road. Sad part is there are so many poachers in this stretch. I've had words with one before - right in front of his daughter. He was clearly defensive and clearly didn't care about embarrassing his daughter. A better tactic is to keep your mouth shut and call a game warden - maybe snap a sneaky pic of the perp if you're so inclined.

On Monday, February 26, 2018 at 12:33:21 PM UTC-5, Andrew R wrote:

Probably a bit late to the game on this one, but which part of the Patuxent are you looking to fish? Mainstem, Middle or Little? If the latter, head to Savage Mill and fish from the bridge up about a mile and a half. There's alot of cool water in that stretch and I've found there to be holdovers from the fall stockings as well. Just a word of caution, the first couple days post stocking can be akin to combat fishing with alot of gear and bait guys out there as well.

Tight lines,

Andrew R

On Saturday, February 24, 2018 at 4:05:37 PM UTC-5, Bish wrote:
Maryland provides maps:
http://gisapps.dnr.state.md.us/TroutStockingMap/
Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 24, 2018, at 11:10 AM, namfos <mark....@gmail.com> wrote:

Go up Georgia Ave to where it crosses the Patuxent, nortth of Olney. There's a parking lot on the left. https://binged.it/2ClImCu

Mark

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Monday, 26 February 2018

{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Rapidan

Great post man!!

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Rapidan

Post is up! Let me know how I did!

https://districtflyfishing.tumblr.com/post/171327151995/tippet-and-the-river-i-put-off-fishing

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Cassette Reels

I just ordered this reel for large mouth bass, muskie, and steelhead fishing:

Greys GTS700 (2018 version) 7/8/9 wt Cassette Reel

https://www.ebay.com/itm/252204954612?_trksid=p11400.c100710.m5035&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20170110123657%26meid%3D3ac5f77a1ec14cc891f531f4386e56b2%26pid%3D100710%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D252204954612%26itm%3D252204954612&ul_noapp=true

Anyone with experience with a Greys Cassette Reel. I have only found very possitive reviews on line. I like the low cost and ease of swapping spools, it comes with 3.

MikeV

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Rapidan

Thanks for the map and info. I would like to do a Rapidan trip this Spring at a time recommended by members here. Might do a stay over someplace and make it a multiple day thing..

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:28:50 PM UTC-5, Cam Buglione wrote:

I did a camping / fishing weekend on the Rapidan last fall. If you park on Skyline and take the Mill Prong Trail down a little over a mile to Rapidan Camp, and then take the unpaved path (horses) down ~1/4 mile there are a lot of good spots to throw a fly

https://www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/upload/RapidanCamp_RoadTrail.pdf

Did pretty well there last November. On the same trip I also tried fishing the Rapidan from the bottom up starting outside the park boundaries, but didnt have much success in the lower portions

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Rapidan

Greg - yeah man! The first fish I got was a gorgeous 10" male and I thought my day was made. Then I caught a few more that size and ended the day with a 12" fish, which is a trophy for the Shenandoah. I'm going to post a trip report with more pics on my blog soon (districtflyfishing.tumblr.com), I'll put it up here too.

What was hilarious about the day was that I forgot to bring any tippet. So I was scavenging tippets from various old leaders. I lost my tight line rig in a tree and didn't have enough for a new leader, so I switched to a dry-dropper. And that ended up working better in the stretch I went on to fish. Stuff like that made it a very memorable day.

I feel a little bad hotspotting but I am mollifying myself that the Rapidan is no secret... and I just fished at the first turnoff.

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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: In search of bigger trout

How does the South River fish this time of year?

Bryan

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 1:16 PM, Carl Z. <carl.zmola0@gmail.com> wrote:

I haven't been to the Casselman this year, but I have gotten good fish from right under I68 in the past (though the area might be closed due to construction on the bridge). 14-16" rainbows. However, they seem to pool up together and hit pellet flies. I used rubberleggs, but black/brown small streamers would probably work well.

Not the most scenic fishing and after a bit it get's a bit boring pulling in stockers, but it beats not catching fish.

Carl

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On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Charlie Church <charliechurch1@gmail.com> wrote:
I have done well wading the north branch this time of the year on some nicer fish. Bring a wading staff and studs if you go.

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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: In search of bigger trout

I haven't been to the Casselman this year, but I have gotten good fish from right under I68 in the past (though the area might be closed due to construction on the bridge). 14-16" rainbows. However, they seem to pool up together and hit pellet flies. I used rubberleggs, but black/brown small streamers would probably work well.

Not the most scenic fishing and after a bit it get's a bit boring pulling in stockers, but it beats not catching fish.

Carl

Carl Zmola

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Charlie Church <charliechurch1@gmail.com> wrote:

I have done well wading the north branch this time of the year on some nicer fish. Bring a wading staff and studs if you go.

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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: In search of bigger trout

I have done well wading the north branch this time of the year on some nicer fish. Bring a wading staff and studs if you go.

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} In search of bigger trout

I'm interested in hitting a Virginia stream this weekend. Either trout or SMB. bank or wading. Want to start lumbering up to hit the Jackson in April..

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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Patuxent River Trout Fishing

Probably a bit late to the game on this one, but which part of the Patuxent are you looking to fish? Mainstem, Middle or Little? If the latter, head to Savage Mill and fish from the bridge up about a mile and a half. There's alot of cool water in that stretch and I've found there to be holdovers from the fall stockings as well. Just a word of caution, the first couple days post stocking can be akin to combat fishing with alot of gear and bait guys out there as well.

Tight lines,

Andrew R

On Saturday, February 24, 2018 at 4:05:37 PM UTC-5, Bish wrote:

Maryland provides maps:
http://gisapps.dnr.state.md.us/TroutStockingMap/
Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 24, 2018, at 11:10 AM, namfos <mark....@gmail.com> wrote:

Go up Georgia Ave to where it crosses the Patuxent, nortth of Olney. There's a parking lot on the left. https://binged.it/2ClImCu

Mark

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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: In search of bigger trout

Agreed on the Casselman and Savage. I'd probably recommend skipping the NB Potomac and Yough unless you are planning to float. Neither are very wading-only friendly and are definitely best fished by raft, whether actually from the boat or as a means of getting from one hole to the next.

Tight Lines,

Andrew R

On Monday, February 26, 2018 at 10:54:20 AM UTC-5, Marek wrote:

I would also suggest the Casselman. Great water, with some true trophy-class trout.

From: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tidal-potomac-fly-rodders@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Misha Gill
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 9:57 AM
To: Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: In search of bigger trout

I'm told they stock some brood fish in the Casselman, so those would be BIG. I haven't fished it myself but it is definitely good water. There's a scenic and historic stone bridge on it that you should orient to.

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Rapidan

that sound like a good excuse for a hike

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 11:36:14 AM UTC-5, abbie mcmullen wrote:

Hi all! I am thinking of exploring the Rapidan river in the next couple weeks. Does anyone have any tips where to go? Thanks!

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Rapidan

Minor correction - that would be the lot on Graves Rd. You take Graves Mill Rd for a while and then turn right onto Graves Rd.

On Monday, February 26, 2018 at 11:30:47 AM UTC-5, Andrew Sarcinello wrote:

You can also park at the end of Graves Mill Rd and hike in from the lower end - long hike to get to good water but if you aren't able to drive the rough road its another option to consider. And you get to hike downhill at the end of the day. I've always gotten distracted and gone up the Staunton though...lol.

On Monday, February 26, 2018 at 10:25:52 AM UTC-5, Gregg DiSalvo wrote:
Misha, that's a fantastic size range for doah brookies. I may have to find my way to the rapidan. I've always avoided it due to no clearance with my car and perceived crowds, but your report is very promising. Maybe i'll hike in sometime from the top.

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 11:36:14 AM UTC-5, abbie mcmullen wrote:
Hi all! I am thinking of exploring the Rapidan river in the next couple weeks. Does anyone have any tips where to go? Thanks!

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Rapidan

You can also park at the end of Graves Mill Rd and hike in from the lower end - long hike to get to good water but if you aren't able to drive the rough road its another option to consider. And you get to hike downhill at the end of the day. I've always gotten distracted and gone up the Staunton though...lol.

On Monday, February 26, 2018 at 10:25:52 AM UTC-5, Gregg DiSalvo wrote:

Misha, that's a fantastic size range for doah brookies. I may have to find my way to the rapidan. I've always avoided it due to no clearance with my car and perceived crowds, but your report is very promising. Maybe i'll hike in sometime from the top.

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 11:36:14 AM UTC-5, abbie mcmullen wrote:
Hi all! I am thinking of exploring the Rapidan river in the next couple weeks. Does anyone have any tips where to go? Thanks!

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RE: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: In search of bigger trout

I would also suggest the Casselman. Great water, with some true trophy-class trout.

From: tidal-potomac-fly-rodders@googlegroups.com [mailto:tidal-potomac-fly-rodders@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Misha Gill
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 9:57 AM
To: Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders <tidal-potomac-fly-rodders@googlegroups.com>
Subject: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: In search of bigger trout

I'm told they stock some brood fish in the Casselman, so those would be BIG. I haven't fished it myself but it is definitely good water. There's a scenic and historic stone bridge on it that you should orient to.

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Rapidan

Misha, that's a fantastic size range for doah brookies. I may have to find my way to the rapidan. I've always avoided it due to no clearance with my car and perceived crowds, but your report is very promising. Maybe i'll hike in sometime from the top.

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 11:36:14 AM UTC-5, abbie mcmullen wrote:

Hi all! I am thinking of exploring the Rapidan river in the next couple weeks. Does anyone have any tips where to go? Thanks!

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: In search of bigger trout

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Back Creek

Just a heads up, if you head down to the Rapidan and access it from the bottom, the road to get there is very, very rough. It's borderline washed out. Trent advises me that this is the normal state of affairs, so don't count on it being fixed. I was able to drive in with my subaru outback but it was pretty hairy and I had to really concentrate on what I was doing. It's a sweet stream though. I caught a good number of 8-12" brookies. I tight line nymphed and various stonefly patterns in s16-18 worked well. Dry dropper also worked but it's not as effective in the big pools. The fish were primarily hanging in the tails of pools.

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: In search of bigger trout

The lower yough is every bit as close as some of the I81s streams and has really big fish, you also cross the castleman on the way there and you have tons of shore access. yough, castlman and savage are the best three streams within 20 miles of each other in va/md/wv IMHO.

On Sunday, February 25, 2018 at 10:47:54 AM UTC-5, abbie mcmullen wrote:

Hello all! I am looking for a good spot to go next weekend. I've had a lot of luck on the smaller local streams this winter but I was hoping to get into something a little bigger. I wouldn't mind making a trip if it. Something a few hours away is not a problem. Can't wait to hear what everyone likes!
Thanks!
Abbie

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Sunday, 25 February 2018

{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Jackson vs Elk

Does anyone have any awesome stories from either river?? I need a tie breaker to decide my weekend trip!

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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} In search of bigger trout

It's a little more than a few hours drive however the Salmon River for Steelhead or Erie Tribs is a very doable weekend trip . Several years ago Brian Hepler & I did a March trip to the Chatauqua ( Erie Trib ). We had great day of fishing and virtually had the place to ourselves. Obviously you need to keep a sharp on weather conditions for that part of the country before taking off. A little closer to home Calvert Cliffs power plant has been a good late winter fishery for Rockfish in years past. But you would need a boat and or a guide with a boat

Vladimir ( Vo )

On Feb 25, 2018 10:47 AM, "abbie mcmullen" <abbie.mcmullen@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello all! I am looking for a good spot to go next weekend. I've had a lot of luck on the smaller local streams this winter but I was hoping to get into something a little bigger. I wouldn't mind making a trip if it. Something a few hours away is not a problem. Can't wait to hear what everyone likes!
Thanks!
Abbie

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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} In search of bigger trout

you have the north branch in barnum wv, the dirty jackson in covington va, and back creek in sunrise va. wouldnt call them big water. but probably some of the larger trout waters around DC.

Thanks,

Dan Barrett

dannytbarrett@gmail.com

(540)-222-8064

On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 2:20 PM, abbie mcmullen <abbie.mcmullen@gmail.com> wrote:

I was hoping to stick to wading. Thanks though!

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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} In search of bigger trout

^^ agreed but they are some persnickety fish

On Feb 25, 2018 4:31 PM, "Rob Snowhite" <rob@robsnowhite.com> wrote:

Yellow Breeches or Letort/Falling Springs all have some monster fish hiding out.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 25, 2018, at 2:20 PM, abbie mcmullen <abbie.mcmullen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I was hoping to stick to wading. Thanks though!
>
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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} In search of bigger trout

Yellow Breeches or Letort/Falling Springs all have some monster fish hiding out.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 25, 2018, at 2:20 PM, abbie mcmullen <abbie.mcmullen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I was hoping to stick to wading. Thanks though!
>
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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} In search of bigger trout

I was hoping to stick to wading. Thanks though!

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} In search of bigger trout

If the little j is up, a float trip down that river would be a solid bet.

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} In search of bigger trout

Hello all! I am looking for a good spot to go next weekend. I've had a lot of luck on the smaller local streams this winter but I was hoping to get into something a little bigger. I wouldn't mind making a trip if it. Something a few hours away is not a problem. Can't wait to hear what everyone likes!
Thanks!
Abbie

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Reporting in from Annapolis Tie Fest

https://www.flydreamers.com/en/photo/fly-for-striper-pic-by-jason-taylor-fly-dreamers-pic249993

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Reporting in from Annapolis Tie Fest

Vo was kind enough to hook me up with a ride to Annapolis. Thanks!

The show was well attended, there were flyfishers standing in line to get in a 10 am. Sadly, Lefty is ailing and could not be there.

The physical space was cramped around the booths and tyers. Difficult to sit down and really watch closely but I was inspired by the skill and creativity. Bob Popovics was tying a monster bait fish pattern called "The Beast".

Also watch some programs on southern musky and on fishing Tangier Island. All those pictures of fat fish have exacerbated the shack nasties...come on spring!

Overall, a great way to spend a drizzly day, Stevie

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Saturday, 24 February 2018

{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Back Creek

Has anyone fished the regulation waters on the Back Creek tail waters... to the west of Jackson River? According to Beau Beasley all other sections of Back creek are off limits. Supposed to be more of a small river and very scenic, mostly healthy rainbows. Just curious, might add it to my April trip to the Jackson..

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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Patuxent River Trout Fishing

Maryland provides maps:
http://gisapps.dnr.state.md.us/TroutStockingMap/

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 24, 2018, at 11:10 AM, namfos <mark.sofman@gmail.com> wrote:

Go up Georgia Ave to where it crosses the Patuxent, nortth of Olney. There's a parking lot on the left. https://binged.it/2ClImCu

Mark

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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Patuxent River Trout Fishing

Go up Georgia Ave to where it crosses the Patuxent, nortth of Olney. There's a parking lot on the left. https://binged.it/2ClImCu

Mark

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Friday, 23 February 2018

Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Patuxent River Trout Fishing

I was hoping to make it out on the water tomorrow so unfortunately I will not likely be able to purchase the book before then, but thank you for the recommendation Carl. I will be sure to check that out

I guess with that in mind, does anyone know which side of the Patuxent (above Triadelphia Reservoir versus below the Damn) is typically stocked ?

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RE: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Patuxent River Trout Fishing

Charlie Gelso and Larry Colburn's book "Guide to Maryland Trout Fishing" (third edition) is an excellent source of information including parking, access and recommended flies.

Carl S.

From: tidal-potomac-fly-rodders@googlegroups.com [mailto:tidal-potomac-fly-rodders@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cam Buglione
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 1:44 PM
To: Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders <tidal-potomac-fly-rodders@googlegroups.com>
Subject: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Patuxent River Trout Fishing

I received an email today that 800 Rainbow Trout were stocked in the Patuxent River in Montgomery County, MD. I've never fly fished this river below and am relatively unfamiliar with it. Would anyone be able to provide direction or recommendations on access points in Montgomery County?

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Patuxent River Trout Fishing

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Rapidan

I did a camping / fishing weekend on the Rapidan last fall. If you park on Skyline and take the Mill Prong Trail down a little over a mile to Rapidan Camp, and then take the unpaved path (horses) down ~1/4 mile there are a lot of good spots to throw a fly

https://www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/upload/RapidanCamp_RoadTrail.pdf

Did pretty well there last November. On the same trip I also tried fishing the Rapidan from the bottom up starting outside the park boundaries, but didnt have much success in the lower portions

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Rapidan

There are only a couple of access points. I prefer to walk down from skyline drive but some people don't care for the hike back out.

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Rapidan

Hi all! I am thinking of exploring the Rapidan river in the next couple weeks. Does anyone have any tips where to go? Thanks!

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Guide rec for Smoky Mountains, staying near Gatlinburg, TN

Ian and Charity Rutter have a good reputation and have been guiding that region for a long time http://randrflyfishing.com/

If you jump over to the NC side and want to fish some bigger waters like the Tuck, you could try Tuck Fly Shop http://www.tuckflyshop.com/

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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Guide rec for Smoky Mountains, staying near Gatlinburg, TN

Little River outfitters in Townsend has fly gear, reports, and works with some local guides. I like the Abrams Creek/Little River areas of the park, including Elkmont and Tremont. This is small water once you get in the park, so a 4 wt would be the absolute max you would need, and I fished a 3 for years. One of my favorite things to do was to hike to below Abrams Falls from upstream, and then fish downstream from the falls with streamers or big meat flies. You'll catch rainbows and smallmouth, with the very (and I mean very) occasional brown towards the lower end. That is a full-day excursion though. Basic rule of thumb for there is hike upstream to find more fish and solitude, hike downstream for larger fish. But some of the high plunge pools will surprise you.

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Thursday, 22 February 2018

Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Guide rec for Smoky Mountains, staying near Gatlinburg, TN

The trout in the park definitely tend to run on the small side. Every now and then you might find a bigger brown but the majority of the streams are loaded with rainbows that tend to average 7-8 inches with the occasional fish over 10. There are a handful of streams with Brooke's that are your typical Appalachian brook trout. That said, the fish in the park are all wild and the streams are beautiful with solitude easy to find. As far as I know, most of the streams outside the park are stocked fisheries. Really up to you as to your preference.

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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Guide rec for Smoky Mountains, staying near Gatlinburg, TN

Thanks for the advice both of you. I called a few places, and they all said there's plenty of small trout in the park, but best bet for bigger fish is outside the park in NC. Tuckasegee in particular. I'll give River's Edge a call. Thanks!

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 11:05 AM, John Mathews <lowcountryneophyte@gmail.com> wrote:

You might want to consider going over to Cherokee on US 441 and get your guide out of River's Edge Fly Shop. They have access to private waters and the Tuckasegee at that time of year is a really good river to fish. There's a lot of good water to fish in that area with my favorite being the Raven's Fork Trophy water on the Reservation.

https://www.flyfishingtrail.com/

On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 at 10:46:17 AM UTC-5, Gus1Gus1 wrote:
Does anyone have a guide recommendation for the Smokey Mountain National Park area? I will be staying north of the park, near Gatlinburg. A quick google search yields lots of possibilities, but I thought I'd ask this educated group to see if anyone has any firsthand experience with a guide. I'm looking to do a full day guided trip. I will probably do some fishing on my own inside the park, and outside the park, particularly in North Carolina. I will be there the last week of March, 2018.
Thanks in advance!

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