Miles, we clearly don't know each other which was one of the mistakes i made in a previous post...
First off, I actually agree with a majority of what you and Dan are saying. I guess you were both eager to push back and it certainly is easier attacking a strawman rather than the points i made....
I think there is a distinction to be made between the terms 'public' and 'promotion'. I have actively posted and supported providing the resources people need to find publicly available information on fishing opportunities in the region and will gladly do another post with links and resources to both explore and find good fishing opportunities for bass, trout, stripers, whatever. And I've never made an argument against promoting streams and access points that are good places to learn, take a friend, or whatever with stable or mostly stocked populations. However, hotspotting and regularly promoting small streams can put incredible pressure on fairly fragile ecosystems, whether they're "man made" or not.
You then attack me for being disingenuous, which i think is against the rules here, but nonetheless... I am simply saying if we start hotspotting small streams in the park, that are already under enormous pressure, we further focus the pressure and could end up causing serious harm. However, providing the resources to finding all the great fishing opportunities throughout SNP, GW, etc. can help immensely, perhaps more than naming specific water especially in the park where one valley can be slow fishing while the next can have brookies gobbling everything. I think it's great what this group has done for spreading awareness on issues like Didymo, spawning, etc. I wish TPFR had been around when i first started fishing the park because it wasn't until a couple years later at a fly shop that i learned about the damage wading can do to redds and the entire process.
You're closing to that whole argument against hotspotting, "We (people) made those fisheries, and we can make more" is kind of a ridiculous counter to preservation and again refers to arguments i never made. I assume you meant the best by it and that we should create more, but you can take one look at the science on mid-atlantic trout fisheries and realize we're on a mostly downward trend, with skinny water home to native and wild fish getting the hardest hit by warming, acid rain, human pressure, and deforestation.
Back to the point that we don't know each other .. I don't look at this group as competition, otherwise i wouldn't have participated in many of the discussions hopefully providing at least a tenth as much useful advice as i've gotten. I probably introduced a dozen people to fishing on the Potomac or nearby in the last year and regularly recommend this forum as a resource. I personally had never gone after schoolies in the potomac until becoming a member on here and found some of the hints, particularly on fly and line choice particularly useful... For what it's worth, and sorry(?) for not talking about it...i never did it for credit, but I was actively involved in securing federal money for not only the four mile run rehabilitation, but nps land purchases in the big hunting creek watershed and elsewhere, and coordinated with several congressional offices to build a three state, multi-member coalition to fund better science on the impacts of fracking in the Delaware River watershed....I've worked on projects from Bristol Bay and the Elwha restoration (you might see me out on the water with a "Last Dam Summer" hat on occasionally) to the deep water horizon response and funding for the USGS to study and investigate the endocrine disruptor and intersex fish problem plaguing the potomac bass fishery. Lots of people, probably several on here, have done significantly more, but none of this work would have people possible without the recent rise of outdoorsmen in becoming a non-partisan force in protecting public lands. TU, TNC, Ducks Unlimited, their members, and thousands of other groups on a local level have significantly changed the landscape for the better. Great knowing people from this group are involved as well.
Closing up. Wish you all a happy new year, sincere apologies everyone for starting this all with completely the wrong tone. Owe a couple of you some beers if we ever meet. I'll also work on putting together a post with a ton of helpful information and resources for finding and fishing the variety public resources in the area. The local fly shops probably are even better tho, and if you're willing to hire a guide out west, think of supporting the shops and guides locally as well, since they have a ton of knowledge and can help put you and visiting friends and first timers on good fish.
in terms of fishing advice -- Four mile run/gravelly should continue to be slow this week (tho sometimes it'll turn on for an hour or two when the tide/temps peak) as well as most maryland streams, and other mt. streams, as it will continue to be pretty chilly the rest of the week... recommend dickerson for crappie & bass, pa or va springs for trout. be careful tho, banks/rocks are getting icy up in the 'hollers' and falls seem hurt twice as bad in this weather.
Best,
Brendan
On Sunday, December 30, 2012 4:41:12 PM UTC-5, Miles wrote:
Brendan,
I don't find this apology particularly helpful. First, I think you're misunderstanding the point of this club: namely, to encourage people to fish more diversely in our region, and not focus exclusively on teeny-weeny trout. For every angler you bump elbows with on Big Hunting each Saturday, I would reckon TPFR has a half-dozen hitting 4MR, Chain Bridge, the Occoquan, Riverbend, Hemlock Overlook, and other non-trout locations. We spend 80-90% of our time up here talking about everything but trout; the easiest way to keep people from fishing for trout is to show them something better. And your use of SNP is disingenuous: every post I can remember on the subject this fall has recommended people stay out of SNP streams during the spawning season.
Second, I also think you're making a categorical error in how you understand lots of the places we fish. Mossy Creek, Upper South River, Beaver Creek, the Gunpowder, the lower Jackson, and - yes - Big Hunting Creek are man-made fisheries. Even if the trout are 'wild' on Big Hunting, there is no way they would be there now without extensive human intervention. So it's kinda BS to swing the term 'wild' around as if you're standing up for something pristine. We (people) made those fisheries, and we can make more. Those guys on Big Hunting are evidence that there's demand for lots more of these sorts of fisheries.
So where you might look at this forum and this group as lots of competitors who want to fish 'your' favorite spots, I see allies that can help push fisheries managers to make better decisions, and to revitalize -- if not create outright -- more 'wild' trout streams in our region. We've already seen this group join the effort to pressure the Atlantic Fisheries Council to reduce the commercial menhaden catch, and some of us are watching the restoration of 4 Mile Run closely and looking for ways we can get involved (http://alexandriava.gov/uploadedFiles/planning/info/ ) -- just to bring this back to the original thread topic.masterplan/Four%20Mile%20Run% 20Restoration%20Master%20Plan.
Point being: I think your apology would be more effective if you were tuned in to what we're trying to do, and tried to be helpful, rather than woe-is-me whinging about the end of the world as we know it.
thanks,
Miles
http://www.tpfr.org
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